Curse

HawkofStorms · Oct 06, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

An actualy ranking system (like the GvG or HB ladder) based on the ELO system is a MUCH better way to determine real skill level. I feel like its too late for GW1 (too many people who grinded for 100s of hours on end with IWAY and Spirit Spamming would get mad).

But yeah, however they do that "professional PvP" (unlike the causal PvP) of GW2, should be run off the ELO system.

aapo · Oct 06, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

few thing who can happen.

Lets play EoE bomb for fun.
- no way i dont want compromise my rank.

- Then make two modes of playing like in GvG: unranked and ranked. Problem solved!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

I have this friend who like to learn pvp lets take him
- no way i dont want compromise my rank.

- Then make each team member's ELO rating changes based on team averages. Problem solved!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

i have this wonderfull idea of a build to test.
- no way i dont want compromise my rank.

- Then make two modes of playing like in GvG: unranked and ranked. Problem solved!

It isn't that hard if you think things through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

In that order? Ranks mean nothing, anyway. A skilled player will be skilled regardless of rank.

- Well, duh, this discussion began because ranks don't mean anything. Suggestion was made so that they would mean something and stupid fame-farming build grinder 10 hours a day would not give you rank 12. Only actual increase in playing skill (measured by win/loss or rating) would advance your ranking. Even better if it's actually in correlation how good your peers are.

Div · Oct 06, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Any serious PvPer doesn't look at stuff like Fame or sometimes even Champ as an indicator of skill. It shows how much experience and time people put into those areas of PvP, but definitely not skill. The win/loss record thing won't necessarily solve that problem either, and would require lots of database storage. The best way to see how good a player is to try them out. Faction/fame/champ is just an indicator to screen out people who have very little chance of being good.

Having just posted a recruitment ad, I've gotten ~30 applicants. There's no way I can guest and try out every single player, so stuff like fame and champ points are needed to screen out the bad players. I'm not going to waste time trying out someone with 100k faction and is rank 2 with no champ points, so getting rid of those titles completely is bad too. Sure, that guy might be good or have lots of potential, but what are the chances of that? Probably much less than trying out a guy with 3 mil+ faction, rank 10, and champ 2.

Darkobra · Oct 06, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I was talking on a larger scale than the basic PVP in Guild Wars. Well, if you've ever played such games.

lishi · Oct 06, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

WHAT UW farming rank???? sure people demand specific builds for UW and thats BAD nevertheless its also off topic.

if someone got rank 9 farming underworld 1 fame by time he deserve the rank 9.

lishi · Oct 06, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Then make two modes of playing like in GvG: unranked and ranked. Problem solved!

- Then make each team member's ELO rating changes based on team averages. Problem solved!

- Then make two modes of playing like in GvG: unranked and ranked. Problem solved!

It isn't that hard if you think things through.

- Well, duh, this discussion began because ranks don't mean anything. Suggestion was made so that they would mean something and stupid fame-farming build grinder 10 hours a day would not give you rank 12. Only actual increase in playing skill (measured by win/loss or rating) would advance your ranking. Even better if it's actually in correlation how good your peers are.

1) Who will even play the unraked one? Other people testing their build? What kid of test is if you never face team who actually face on ranked one.

2) A low skilled player in a team of high ranked player will affect the average team level by a very low level. while he will affect the team performance by a lot.(if they will make it affect by a good amount then you will find people logging in a secondary accont to get more rating)

the win/loss ratio sound a good idea, its actually isnt. It create too many probrems.
And btw that too is not a good indicator of a player skills. im pretty sure many people who actually played the prenerfed ranger/bloodspike have a pretty good rating. but that dont make them good player.

Plus it will make much worse for a team to take new people in.

adrifts · Oct 07, 2007, 02:14 AM // 02:14

in my experience, you can blame a loss on something as simple as one person for being disconnected and etc, and i don't think it would be fair to make everyone else pay for it. even the ladder doesn't quite reflect skill properly, rawr is rank 1 for example.

Cnegurozka · Oct 07, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

It would even promote more rank discrimination:
If i have a high ELO rating, i will ONLY and EVER play with ppl that have at least my rating. If i play with ppl with a lower rating, I'm running a high risk of losing a fight and thus losing my rank. (Seen this in other games that are team based and have player based ELO rating)

RhanoctJocosa · Oct 07, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cnegurozka

It would even promote more rank discrimination:
If i have a high ELO rating, i will ONLY and EVER play with ppl that have at least my rating. If i play with ppl with a lower rating, I'm running a high risk of losing a fight and thus losing my rank. (Seen this in other games that are team based and have player based ELO rating)

Exactly, lol.

I don't think OP PvPs, either that or he/she's just stupid.

HawkofStorms · Oct 07, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

People discriminate by rank anyway. At least this way, the ELO rating would be a legitamate way to determine skill level.

A11Eur0 · Oct 07, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

if someone got rank 9 farming underworld 1 fame by time he deserve the rank 9.

Can someone explain this to me?

I'm no PvP'er so I'm kinda confused on how to gain fame other than winning in PvP arenas...Guildwiki only says that it's gained through wins in HA...can I get it in TA, GvG?

Selket · Oct 07, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

I kept the hexes off, and kept the weapon spells on at ALL times. Here's the cincher: IM ONLY R1!!!!

Being able to play your bar is the least important part of HA, and basically anyone should be able to play any given bar for HA.

HawkofStorms · Oct 07, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Being able to play your bar is the least important part of HA, and basically anyone should be able to play any given bar for HA.

Still, the guy who was rank 9 said he was the best so and so he'd ever seen. Yes, positioning and decision making are important. Playing your bar properly is only so important, but since the guy who had lots of experience thought the guy who was rank 1 was very good, clearly rank isn't a measure of how good you are.

Sleeper Service · Oct 07, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

and these are any better or worse then cookie cutter underworld farming rankRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs how ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

if someone got rank 9 farming underworld 1 fame by time he deserve the rank 9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Can someone explain this to me?

I'm no PvP'er so I'm kinda confused on how to gain fame other than winning in PvP arenas...Guildwiki only says that it's gained through wins in HA...can I get it in TA, GvG?

In all honesty i don't have a CLUE what these guys are on about A11Euro.

nobody has ever asked for "rank" in any of the times i have been into UW.

Chris Blackstar · Oct 07, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

the boneheads that use rank to determine who plays with them suck anyway. More experienced players, simply play with more experienced players. I have learned that you can make yourself look experienced quite simply by knowing the skills, game, and builds; also knowing how to be a team player and listen to instructions.

A good team has very good coordination and timing.

Rank has it's purpose, which to me is not experience. Win/Lose averages is no indicator of skill either, only other players can really determine a persons skill, based off of their own experience.

Personally, I think their should be no indicator at all for any casual PvP play. Professional play should be ranked by win/lose averging, based off of each team, which would consist of the same players.

Master Ketsu · Oct 08, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Well, duh, this discussion began because ranks don't mean anything. Suggestion was made so that they would mean something and stupid fame-farming build grinder 10 hours a day would not give you rank 12. Only actual increase in playing skill (measured by win/loss or rating) would advance your ranking. Even better if it's actually in correlation how good your peers are.

THank you for being one of the few who get the main point. I see people on this thread citing "Rank doesnt mean shit" as a reason why changing the system is a bad idea...when the entire purpose of changing it is because the current system sucks.

And it doesnt neccesarily have to be that drastic. Just a simple % of the matches they have played/lost embedded in the hero and glad title.

Its true that rank doesnt mean much, but if you had to pick wouldnt it be nice to tell the differance between a rank 9 who has lost 95% of his matches and a rank 8 who's lost 10% ? 35%~50% would be luck and based on your team, but theirs a point where it does start to matter. People are going to discriminate with ranks no matter what, so at least make them reflect a player as best as they can.

Liberations · Oct 08, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

I like your idea, Master Ketsu, but, I too, see a better option:

Get rid of Rank altogether. Put 6 team battles in HA, and create a personal ladder. Maybe have ranked and unranked HA? HA isn't that popular now so I dont know if that would work.

Well we can see one thing. ArenaNet has a lot of PvP work to do. PvE is fine, PvP needs the fixing.